Baptism, how important is it?
In the past month or so I have been wrestling with the place of baptism in faith. I have been particularly challenged to consider the differences and similarities between baptism, and confirmation. I have heard a number of different views on the subject, from the idea of not being baptised as not being saved to the idea of baptism as symbolic, but not essential. At the moment I am leaning towards the symbolic but not essential end of the spectrum. A number of people that I care deeply about either been confirmed, or not baptised at all, and I find it very hard to consider them to be 'less' saved or Christian than me. I mean, what does a bit of water really do anyway? I believe it is all about the decision made to follow Jesus, not about the ceremony. Don't get me wrong, I think that baptism is a great way of saying to the world, 'hey, this is who I want to live my life for', but I think that how we live our lives is way more important.
I found a bit in the bible, Luke Ch3 v7-10ish, where Jesus criticises people for getting baptised because it's the popular thing to do, suggesting that it is our lives that must change, and that a bit of water isn't going to do anything. I know that Jesus says, in other places, get baptised, but I know heaps of people who have been baptised, and it hasn't impacted their lives. I'm not sure that being baptised impacted me that much either. I mean, I had already decided to follow Jesus, that water just demonstrated my decision. Okay, maybe I haven't considered the Holy Spirit in this, but the spirit is amongst us without the necessity of baptism.
Okay, time to take a breath!
posted by Ali @ 2:20 pm
4 Comments:
Hey al,
I've actually been thinkin a lot about it too lately.
i read some random internet article about it, and there was a lot of stuff that i disagreed with, but also something that really struck me and kinda resonated.
It talked about how baptism ISNT a symbol (or JUST a symbol anyway), but that when we are baptised something (no idea what) happens in the spiritual realm that we can't know/see/touch, but that we have to trust God for. One of the reasons this resonated with me was because NO WHERE do i see in the Bible baptism descibed as a 'symbol', nor do i ever see the purpose of baptism explained as though 'it is to show others who you have chosen to follow'. It's our everyday lives that show that.
I thought about it: it really fits. When Paul baptised the Eunich in the puddle by the side of the road, it had NOTHING to do with showing other people that he wanted to live a life of faith in God. Perhaps we trivialise baptism when we call it a symbol, and only a symbol. It's not the be all and end all of following Jesus, but Jesus said 'Be baptised', and whether or not i know the reason, i have to trust him that it was a good one!
Hence i am wondering whether i will say to one of my good mates 'hey, next time we're at the beach, if you're serious about the God stuff, wanna get baptised?'. It's between the person and God, not between the person and all the people watching! I reckon being baptised in the bath with one other person there, is just as much a 'valid' baptism, as being baptised in front of 1000 people!!! And that is SO clear from the Bible, me thinks.
I've been thinking bout the people you and i know who haven't been baptised. I tried to put myself in their position. i thought, if we think about baptism as something between us and God, if i forget about what it says to everyone watching (Because, if someone has been confirmed, then they may not wanna get baptised, because to others it will look like their confirmation wasn't meaningful, or valid, or that they were less committed to following Jesus than they are now), and if that person says to God 'Look God. I don't feel the NEED to get baptised. I'm not necessarily planning to. But if you let me know that you want me to get baptised, I will do it, regardless of what i think it will portray to the people who witness it, because their opinions are not the important ones. Your will is the important thing, and i'll follow it whether you tell me i need to get baptised, or whether i don't need to' *Breathe! :P* well, i think that's a much more God-focussed way of looking at it! What do ya reckon?? I also think, if i were in that position, maybe i'd think 'well, what do i have to lose by getting baptised?'...a pros and cons list perhaps?
I actually had a pretty powerful after-baptism experience. I felt for weeks as though a burden had been lifted from my shoulders and as though scales had literallly fallen from my eyes and i could see a whole new dimension. I don't make a big deal of that, and lots of people experience God in lots of ways. I'm a 'feeling' person, so maybe that was God's way of communicating with me? But in planning to get baptised, i have to say, i didnt feel convicted to do it, or even have any good reason, apart from going 'oh, i'm a christian. Jesus says get baptised. so i will'. nothing airy-fairy or greatly spiritual about it, but i was highly blessed for doing it. Random thoughts, no particular answers, but it's great to wrestle thru this stuff.
Keep thinking :P Hope my rant made sense.
LOve ya,
mase.
HEY ALI!
READ THIS POST INSTEAD, IT'S MORE FLESHED OUT AND MAYBE MAKES MORE SENSE!!! (SORRY ABOUT THE EXTREME AMOUNT OF SPACE I'M TAKING UP ON YOUR BLOG!!!)
i read some random internet article about it [baptism], and there was a lot of stuff that i disagreed with, but also something that really struck me and kinda resonated.
It talked about how baptism ISNT a symbol (or JUST a symbol anyway) that we wanna follow Jesus, but that when we are baptised something (no idea what) happens in the spiritual realm that we can't know/see/touch, but that we have to trust God for. One of the reasons this resonated with me was because NO WHERE do i see in the Bible baptism descibed as a 'symbol', nor do i ever see the purpose of baptism explained as though 'it is to show others who you have chosen to follow'. It's our everyday lives that [should] show that.
I thought about it: it really fits. When Paul baptised the Eunich in the puddle by the side of the road, it had NOTHING to do with showing other people that he wanted to live a life of faith in God. Perhaps we trivialise baptism when we call it a symbol, and only a symbol. It's not the be all and end all of following Jesus, but Jesus said to do it, and Jesus had good reasons for saying stuff.
Hence i am wondering whether i will say to one of my good mates 'hey, next time we're at the beach, if you're serious about the God stuff, wanna get baptised?'. It's between the person and God, not between the person and all the people watching! I reckon being baptised in the bath with one other person there, is just as much a 'valid' baptism, as being baptised in front of 1000 people!!! And that is SO clear from the Bible, me thinks.
I've been thinking bout the people you and i know who haven't been baptised. I tried to put myself in their position. i thought, if we think about baptism as something between us and God, if i forget about what it says to everyone watching (Because, if someone has been confirmed, then they may not wanna get baptised, because to others it will look like their confirmation wasn't meaningful, or valid, or that they were less committed to following Jesus than they are now, when in fact, that could be TOTALLY incorrect), then maybe that puts a different spin on whether or not we should be baptised. If it's just about showing other people we wanna follow Jesus, then as if i'd wanna do that if i'd already publicly told people that!! i wouldn't wanna say 'oh, i didn't mean it back then, so i'm getting baptised now'. but...if it's more than a symbol, if it's something spiritually significant between an individual and God, well, perhaps that puts it in a different light? not sure.
If a person says to God 'Look God. I don't feel the NEED to get baptised. I'm not necessarily planning to. But if you let me know that you want me to get baptised, I will do it, regardless of what i think it will portray to the people who witness it, because their opinions are not the important ones. Your will is the important thing, and i'll follow it whether you tell me i need to get baptised, or whether i don't need to' then that seems to me to be a great position to be in: it is a laying down of any preconceived ideas of oneself or the opinions of others, to truly and humbly ask 'God, what d'ya want me to do?'. Even if we have to change our opinions, or rethink a position we thought we were firm in, though it is a challenge, it can be so joyous, cos it's God who's leading us through it, and we can know it's for our good, and for a great reason (this is applicable in many many areas). i think this is a much more God-focussed way of looking at it! What do ya reckon?? I also think, if i were in that position, maybe i'd think 'well, what do i have to lose by it?'...a pros and cons list perhaps?
I actually had a pretty powerful after-baptism experience. I felt for weeks as though a burden had been lifted from my shoulders and as though scales had literallly fallen from my eyes and i could see a whole new dimension. I don't make a big deal of that, and lots of people experience God in lots of ways. I'm a 'feeling' person, so maybe that was God's way of communicating with me? But in planning to get baptised, i have to say, i didnt feel convicted to do it, or even have any good reason, apart from going 'oh, i'm a christian. Jesus says get baptised. so i will'. nothing airy-fairy or greatly spiritual about it, but i was highly blessed for doing it. Random thoughts, no particular answers, but it's great to wrestle thru this stuff.
Hey Mase,
Some interesting thoughts! I don't remember (it was five+ years ago!) feeling different or changed after my baptism, but as you said, we all experience God in different ways.
Your post made me think, in that it's true that Jesus spoke of Baptism without refering to it as symbolic. But that doesn't mean that it wasn't symbolic.
I suppose what concerns me, is the ideology that I have heard thrown around suggesting that if someone isn't baptised they won't go to heaven. Something which I disagree whole-heartedly with. ;)
yeah, it's a toughy isn't it? and i agree that there is a huge symbolic significance:::but also that it's significant between God and man, not just man and man, or something!
yay for youth group on fri, got out the chrissy carols last night...gives me the best feelings!!! :) love always. xoxox mase
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